> “We have so many community members within Microsoft who have lost family, lost friends or loved ones,” said Abdo Mohamed, a researcher and data scientist. "But Microsoft really failed to have the space for us where we can come together and share our grief and honor the memories of people who can no longer speak for themselves."
Grief is hard and what's happening in Gaza is tragic, but this is not what the workplace is for. Why is it Microsoft's job to provide the described space?
Maybe this is less of a thing on the coasts, but where I live people have families, friends, churches, bars, clubs, and many other outlets that are designed for this kind of personal reflection and mourning. We don't expect our workplace to provide it for us because we don't live at work. We go into work to earn money to provide means for us to live our lives outside of work. To the extent that we want our coworkers to be involved in those spaces, we invite them to be.
More than anything else what I'm getting from this is that the death of the third space on the West Coast must be well and truly complete, if this kind of line sounds reasonable there.
> Maybe this is less of a thing on the coasts, but where I live people have families, friends, churches, bars, clubs, and many other outlets that are designed for this kind of personal reflection and mourning. We don't expect our workplace to provide it for us because we don't live at work. We go into work to earn money to provide means for us to live our lives outside of work. To the extent that we want our coworkers to be involved in those spaces, we invite them to be.
Yet corporations are eager to show allyship and support to the cause of the moment whenever it provides benefits in term of image and recognition.
> the death of the third space on the West Coast must be well and truly complete
100% gone. I've been wondering lately if companies might benefit from investing in getting the third space back; increase in employee creativity would offset the drop in overtime hours.
Welcome to Corporate Orthodox Church & Bowling Center. We are really glad you’re here. Everyone in accounts receivable is down on Lanes 12-14, and the software engineers are practicing choir right now. Have a seat anywhere you’d like and grab some kool-aid. You’re allowed one drink, but you’ll need to authenticate to the VPN first.
Expecting employees to compartmentalize their personal lives completely during work is unrealistic and dehumanizing.
I’ve worked with American companies for years and sat through countless meetings where U.S.-specific events were addressed—9/11, BLM, elections, Black History Month, Thanksgiving, natural disasters, even sensitivity and active shooter trainings. Outside of local disaster/issues, none of these are directly relevant in my country, yet we empathize, because it’s human to care.
Here’s the problem: When divisive topics arise, companies either censor them entirely or let them play out. Censorship may be inhumane, but it’s efficient. Or, a company can solicit feedback and allow employees to hold non-disruptive, neutral events outside of work hours.
If this is the path, it has to be consistent. No exceptions for topics like the war in Ukraine or U.S. cultural movements. This approach avoids corporate bias while enabling individual expression without disturbing business.
Publicly held or large companies shouldn’t hold positions on sensitive issues, but employees should have the freedom to engage, with policies that prevent harm or offense.
And, by the way, a vigil doesn’t count as harmful.
That is a different complaint and not the one they're fronting. They are framing this event as a personal mourning space, not a protest against company policy.
If they need their personal mourning space to be provided by their employer, that's indicative of a major gap in their non-work support networks.
If they're camouflaging a protest against company policy as personal mourning space, then they're abusing people's support of emotional wellness to justify hosting a protest on private property.
Incredibly shocking how quickly Americans adapted to their government enabling the systematic deaths of thousands. Surely this will leave a lasting impact on those of us who cannot ignore it
Not really shocking- I live in the desert southwest and can see the remnants of the genocide of natives here. There are plenty of folks who are at peace with the "historical necessity" of that mass murder, so it doesn't ever surprise me when the ancestors of those folks are at peace with similar violent efforts to take a space.
I can't ignore it, but the more I look at this place the less it seems like anything truely new- it feels like a product of the kinds of governments that rule the world at the moment.
Bill Gates is no longer at Microsoft. Neither of the Cheneys hold any political office. I look forward to Trump’s action after January,19,2025 as the president of the United States. None of this wishy washy treatment that Israel, a U.S ally has received from the current administration.
>Bill Gates is no longer at Microsoft. Neither of the Cheneys hold any political office.
Yes, certainly lobbying and policy advocacy don't exist, so there's no actual way to be involved in politics other than holding public office and voting.
>None of this wishy washy treatment that Israel, a U.S ally has received from the current administration.
Providing the bulk of weaponry and auxiliary infrastructure to a country actively engaged in a conflict whilst offering full-throated moral support is 'wishy washy' now.
Trump couldn't do anything because he was being held at a deep state black site. The person you saw in the Oval Office was a body double hired off the dark web, who was deliberately making bad decisions to ruin Trump's good reputation and steal the election, probably.
Anyone with sufficient karma can flag and unflag. I did not flag this, and cannot unflag, but stories that are likely to turn into flamewars get flagged. I have also noticed that anything critical of Israel in anyway is also highly likely to get flagged.
I noticed the same: anything critical of Israel gets flagged right away. And I'm not surprised: they have a large IT ecosystem and have engaged in similar behavior before. Paul Graham complained about this [0] after it came out that Israeli VCs, tech entrepreneurs, etc. had groups for coordinating attacks on anyone questioning the Israeli narrative on social media. Like, they mentioned PG by name in their briefings.
I guess don't mix profession and politics? That's a junior move regardless of the topic, and punitive actions are to be expected, anywhere in the world, in any type of business.
The last thing any employer wants to see is to become yet another endless battlefield of left vs right, green vs red, blah vs fart. Keeping politics out of your job is a sign of professionalism, since its trivial for any random 2 people in the world to disagree on politics, they just have to dig deep enough.
From the cold blooded business perspective, MSFT is probably doing the right thing for its here. The FTC is currently looking to break up Google; the military industrial complex would have likely discouraged the FTC from this course of action if Google had crushed the Project Maven employee protests a few years ago.
> “We have so many community members within Microsoft who have lost family, lost friends or loved ones,” said Abdo Mohamed, a researcher and data scientist. "But Microsoft really failed to have the space for us where we can come together and share our grief and honor the memories of people who can no longer speak for themselves."
Grief is hard and what's happening in Gaza is tragic, but this is not what the workplace is for. Why is it Microsoft's job to provide the described space?
Maybe this is less of a thing on the coasts, but where I live people have families, friends, churches, bars, clubs, and many other outlets that are designed for this kind of personal reflection and mourning. We don't expect our workplace to provide it for us because we don't live at work. We go into work to earn money to provide means for us to live our lives outside of work. To the extent that we want our coworkers to be involved in those spaces, we invite them to be.
More than anything else what I'm getting from this is that the death of the third space on the West Coast must be well and truly complete, if this kind of line sounds reasonable there.
> Maybe this is less of a thing on the coasts, but where I live people have families, friends, churches, bars, clubs, and many other outlets that are designed for this kind of personal reflection and mourning. We don't expect our workplace to provide it for us because we don't live at work. We go into work to earn money to provide means for us to live our lives outside of work. To the extent that we want our coworkers to be involved in those spaces, we invite them to be.
Yet corporations are eager to show allyship and support to the cause of the moment whenever it provides benefits in term of image and recognition.
> the death of the third space on the West Coast must be well and truly complete
100% gone. I've been wondering lately if companies might benefit from investing in getting the third space back; increase in employee creativity would offset the drop in overtime hours.
Welcome to Corporate Orthodox Church & Bowling Center. We are really glad you’re here. Everyone in accounts receivable is down on Lanes 12-14, and the software engineers are practicing choir right now. Have a seat anywhere you’d like and grab some kool-aid. You’re allowed one drink, but you’ll need to authenticate to the VPN first.
Except that Microsoft does organize spaces for many other issues, causes and such.
You can argue whether they should or shouldn't, and I think that's valid. But when it gets selective, it gets muddy.
I hate this take.
Expecting employees to compartmentalize their personal lives completely during work is unrealistic and dehumanizing.
I’ve worked with American companies for years and sat through countless meetings where U.S.-specific events were addressed—9/11, BLM, elections, Black History Month, Thanksgiving, natural disasters, even sensitivity and active shooter trainings. Outside of local disaster/issues, none of these are directly relevant in my country, yet we empathize, because it’s human to care.
Here’s the problem: When divisive topics arise, companies either censor them entirely or let them play out. Censorship may be inhumane, but it’s efficient. Or, a company can solicit feedback and allow employees to hold non-disruptive, neutral events outside of work hours.
If this is the path, it has to be consistent. No exceptions for topics like the war in Ukraine or U.S. cultural movements. This approach avoids corporate bias while enabling individual expression without disturbing business.
Publicly held or large companies shouldn’t hold positions on sensitive issues, but employees should have the freedom to engage, with policies that prevent harm or offense.
And, by the way, a vigil doesn’t count as harmful.
The issue is that Microsoft does active business with Israel. It's not just completely non sequitur.
That is a different complaint and not the one they're fronting. They are framing this event as a personal mourning space, not a protest against company policy.
If they need their personal mourning space to be provided by their employer, that's indicative of a major gap in their non-work support networks.
If they're camouflaging a protest against company policy as personal mourning space, then they're abusing people's support of emotional wellness to justify hosting a protest on private property.
I’m not certain why this was flagged, however I think this is a better source: https://apnews.com/article/microsoft-fired-workers-israel-pa...
Somebody posted that link too on HN and it was flagged too. :/
Incredibly shocking how quickly Americans adapted to their government enabling the systematic deaths of thousands. Surely this will leave a lasting impact on those of us who cannot ignore it
Not really shocking- I live in the desert southwest and can see the remnants of the genocide of natives here. There are plenty of folks who are at peace with the "historical necessity" of that mass murder, so it doesn't ever surprise me when the ancestors of those folks are at peace with similar violent efforts to take a space.
I can't ignore it, but the more I look at this place the less it seems like anything truely new- it feels like a product of the kinds of governments that rule the world at the moment.
Some lives are more valuable than other.
Fine.
But they'll never fire their halloween execs.
Both Dick Cheney and Bill Gates endorse the Democrats, who (by their actions) endorse the current events.
Bill Gates is no longer at Microsoft. Neither of the Cheneys hold any political office. I look forward to Trump’s action after January,19,2025 as the president of the United States. None of this wishy washy treatment that Israel, a U.S ally has received from the current administration.
>Bill Gates is no longer at Microsoft. Neither of the Cheneys hold any political office.
Yes, certainly lobbying and policy advocacy don't exist, so there's no actual way to be involved in politics other than holding public office and voting.
>None of this wishy washy treatment that Israel, a U.S ally has received from the current administration.
Providing the bulk of weaponry and auxiliary infrastructure to a country actively engaged in a conflict whilst offering full-throated moral support is 'wishy washy' now.
What did Trump do to hold Israel accountable between 2016 and 2020?
Trump couldn't do anything because he was being held at a deep state black site. The person you saw in the Oval Office was a body double hired off the dark web, who was deliberately making bad decisions to ruin Trump's good reputation and steal the election, probably.
I wonder if there was an "unauthorised" vigil for Ukranians on ms premises would the employee be fired too.
Why is this flagged? @dang
Anyone with sufficient karma can flag and unflag. I did not flag this, and cannot unflag, but stories that are likely to turn into flamewars get flagged. I have also noticed that anything critical of Israel in anyway is also highly likely to get flagged.
Ditto on the point about Israel.
I noticed the same: anything critical of Israel gets flagged right away. And I'm not surprised: they have a large IT ecosystem and have engaged in similar behavior before. Paul Graham complained about this [0] after it came out that Israeli VCs, tech entrepreneurs, etc. had groups for coordinating attacks on anyone questioning the Israeli narrative on social media. Like, they mentioned PG by name in their briefings.
[0] https://x.com/paulg/status/1733146138226614465
[flagged]
Consent manufactured.
Would this happen to fall under the "cancel culture" rubric?
I guess don't mix profession and politics? That's a junior move regardless of the topic, and punitive actions are to be expected, anywhere in the world, in any type of business.
The last thing any employer wants to see is to become yet another endless battlefield of left vs right, green vs red, blah vs fart. Keeping politics out of your job is a sign of professionalism, since its trivial for any random 2 people in the world to disagree on politics, they just have to dig deep enough.
Doing business with Israel is mixing profession and politics.
From the cold blooded business perspective, MSFT is probably doing the right thing for its here. The FTC is currently looking to break up Google; the military industrial complex would have likely discouraged the FTC from this course of action if Google had crushed the Project Maven employee protests a few years ago.